Is it time for a change? Is “He’s the Closer” the right approach for Dave Trembley to take with Mike Gonzalez and the Orioles bullpen, right now? We have lamented over Gonzo’s struggles and even agreed that 3 games is too little time to make an accurate judgement on a players ability. But is a “stick with him until he completely fails” approach the best way to get Gonzalez straightened out and help the O’s win games?
I get that he was signed to be the closer and I hope that is his long term role with the club, but wouldn’t it make more sense to let Gonzalez work out his problems in a different role? Let him fix things with a few situational appearances, or as a set up guy in the 7th or 8th. Jim Johnson is throwing the ball well right now, Mike Gonzalez is not. Maybe he did not log enough innings in the spring to get his arm strength and mechanics where they need to be. So why not let Gonzo assume a role where his failure might not be so crushing to the Orioles chances, until he can get his stuff together? It might be a way to find out if he can get it together and not cost the O’s so many games.
I know there are not a myriad of better options, but for the time being there are guys in the ‘pen performing better than Gonzalez and there are a couple arms in the minors that have closer written all over them in Kam Mickolio and Luis Lebron. I guess sticking with George Sherrill worked for Trembley and the O’s last year, but I question whether this is the best philosophy for an Orioles team that is playing well enough to win games right now.
JP,
Gonzalez should not be closing games right now, but in that Trembley is a "push button" manager it's no surprise if he continues to do so. Bottom line is, I'm not sure Trembley has the instincts to manage a big league team. Time after time last year, Trembley would have a guy in his lineup struggle, only to then go out and have a 2 or 3 hit night, and then he would reward the guy the next day with a "game off". He knows nothing of going with his "hot hand", he knows nothing about using a bullpen, so how could he possible know that bringing in a struggling reliever on opening day was not a good idea?
Any clown, including me, can open up some "Managing MLB 101" book and say, use your 8th inning guy in the 8th, close the game with your stopper in the 9th…sometimes you gotta go with your gut and throw away the book.
Trembley is managing scared and will probably be fired this offseason. If it was me, I'd at least go down swinging doing things my way…or he can keep pushing the auto-pilot button…
I must be the only one not panicking in this situation. I see the concern, but we're basing our judgments on four days of results. Gonzo struggled early last season too and he straightened it out. When you take a guy out of his role it messes with his head, see Jim Johnson as the closer last season.
If he continues to fail you've got to move him out, but I like Trembley's insistence on keeping him in the spot for the time being.
Zach
We're not basing judgments on 4 days of results. We're basing it on years.
Today's game was a carbon copy of what this team did during their 16 game Sunday losing streak last season.
I dunno. If you wanna keep the dream alive by all means feel free.
But the reality is that it's a complete nightmare.
Trembley might not make it past mid May.
Looks like Trebley has moved beyond push button into panic mode. According to Peter Schmuck, Gonzalez is going to be used in less pressure situations.
When the Ravens ridiculously over-spend for Dominque Foxworthy, we say "Trust in OZ"…When MacPhail spends $12 million Guaranteed for two years on an unproven Closer (we all can recite the seven blown saves in 17 chances last season by now), we run the kid out of town in less than a week. I dunno. There's an axiom that says "If the Atlanta Braves get rid of a player, maybe we shouldn't touch him". MacPhail surely knows more than all of us put together, right? Right? RIGHT? Lets hope!
Bruz – Ravens are a PR machine at work. Everything they do is Gold, Jerry, gold. This is a football town, always has been. This is a town that couldn't sell out world series games in 1966 and 1970. The yokals will make every excuse in the world for the football team and everything the baseball team does stinks. It's plainly obvious.
That's how this town works though. Ozzie can do no wrong, but we base all our judgements in the orioles season after seven days.
I see the Orioles brass getting rid of both Trembies and Gonzo. Trembies is definitely in panic mode and Gonzo is NOT a legit closer in any league- much less the AL East. What were they thinking, he'd get better overnight? That's like me getting better looking.
Our case study on Gonzo is under a week old. Simmer down everyone. We'll get through this together.
Only 6 games in the season I see another of the O's stupid ideas already cost them a game. Signing Tejada to play a position he never has made an error with two out in the eighth inning to ignite the Blue Jays today.
So, out of 6 games the O's with their bright idea of signing a guy to play out of position and a guy to be a closer only one year removed from Tommy John surgery and allowed to be a free agent by the Braves, have cost the O's 3 of the 1st 5 losses.
Hey Zach, the Blue Jays were the team you were hoping the O's would figtht to the finish for 4th place.
All together! Oriole baseball, da da da da dah… Its number 1 when your having fun….
I'd argue with you if I could, but what would I say?
You're telling me the O's are gonna finish behind the Jays because of a week if baseball? Were you thinking the Yankees wouldn't make the playoffs this time last season?
Zach
You aren't doing yourself any favors with comments like that regarding the Yankees.
Of course nobody was saying the same thing about the Yankees this time last year.
They had and have legit proven talent.
I could go and and on about listing other differences but it doesn't seem to sink in with you.
The point is the team that supposedly stunk worse than us just came in at the beginning of the season and swept the O's at home.
Remember, this isn't September when the Orioles usually give up and go on 3-15 slides. This is the first week of a season where supposedly the word "rebuilding" has been put to bed and where wins and losses are what counts.
I see the SAME THINGS that I saw in losses last year. There's a pattern here and it's pretty clear.
Again, the burden of proof is on them, not us fans who through our hands up and scream mercy.
The baseball season is 162 games long, the football season is 16. If you compare the MLB season to the baseball season thus far we're about halfway through one football game.
If the Ravens went into the half of week 1 getting pounded by an opponent would you write off the rest of the season? I know it's a bad start and they've been bad for a while, but let's put the SEASON in perspective. Not just the Orioles, you don't know what's going to happen with the Rays, Yanks, or Sox the rest of the year either.
How long did the it take the Ravens to get rid of Steve Hauschka? Halfway through the season right? And we're writing off Gonzo at halftime.
You guys may be right, I'm just holding my judgments until I see a little more than 2 quarters!. 🙂
Zach I agree it is too early to write off Gonzo and perhaps the season. I do think that Trembley being flexible with Gonzo's role while he is struggling is a smart thing. He needs to prove he can be effective before I want him out there in a save situation.
As far as writing off the season, many around here and many O's fans in general wrote it off before it began. I can understand. Hoping to win more than 75 games in a division that may feature the best 3 teams in the AL is reason enough to write off a season. I was not one who wrote the O's off. I was excited to get this season going and am still excited to see how the season turns out. But the start the O's has gotten off to and the way they have been losing close games has taken the wind out of my sails. To me, that is saying a lot because I consider myself a pretty even-keel sports fan.
I understand the frustrations coming from the fans that are upset with the past 12 years. I suppose my answer is to the fans that believed the O's were headed in the right direction going into this season. If you though/think that…then don't write off this season just yet.
Zach
I might not 100% know what will happen with those teams but come on man.
You need to stop lumping all these teams in as if there aren't major differences. Those teams have better talent and clearly a better track record than anything the Orioles have to offer.
So while you may be right in the literal sense, you aren't looking at it objectively in my opinion.
I didn't need 6 games to tell me the Orioles aren't in the same class as TB/BOS/NYY.
This is the same argument we always have though. I think the Orioles are building a positive future, but you don't.
I didn't want to discuss that in this piece. I wanted to be critical of fair-weather fans.
Fair weather fans?
This team has sucked for 12 + years.
What do you want from people?
You say "back it up". What does that mean?
It means, don't care for one game of the year and then ignore the product the other 161 games.
Why shouldn't someone ignore a product that is terrible Zach?
Why should they pay their hard earned money for crap?
This happens in every city when a team does what the Orioles have done for 12 years.
I know you don't wanna talk about the product on the field but it's directly related to the issue you have brought up.
Hell, the O's are lucky they get the revenue from the opening day crowd that they get. A few more years like they've had and they might not fill up the stadium on opening day.
It's about more than paying your money to watch the team. I guess I don't understand your argument, as someone who saw 20 games last year…Good fans pay attention to the team more than 1 game a year and good fans give Brooks Robinson a proper ovation.We don't have those fans at OPACY.
O Ok.
So now you are the guy who defines who is a "good" fan vs who is a "bad" fan.
I don't get into that debate and I listed some reasons in my comments earlier in this thread.
I find absolutely no fault with ANYONE who doesn't give a crap about this team anymore. And I don't think it makes them a bad fan at all.
To me, it's pie in the sky thinking to think that somehow this organization should have or deserves any sort of major support from it's fan base. They have taken a dump on them for over a decade and many said no mas.
Just as you can't seem to understand my argument, I fail to see your side at all.
I can see that you don't understand my side because my entire post on opening day was about defining good and bad fans. I don't understand why that topic is taboo or why you're so defensive of fans that don't care when you clearly do.
If anything I would think that a fan in your position would be frustrated with the \”Opening Day, hot dog race faithful.\” But I guess even this topic, one which I thought for sure we'd agree on, we don't agree on.
Go O's. I'll boo \”mustard\”
Thats the thing Zach, we all answered your article, which I will say was a good one, with the same answer to the question you asked. This team stinks, the management does a cheap bandaid approach, management lies, etc…
I admit the O's are trying to build a little bit of a future but its not positive… You have to look now at the bandaid, Tejada, Millwood, Guthrie, Izturis, Scott, possibly Atkins, possibly Gonzo, will be gone next year. So you will be looking for a starting 3rd, #1 & #2 pitcher, DH, 1st (?), SS (?) & Closer (?) next year. Thats not a positive future…
You fans complain about being in the same division with the Yanks, RedSox & Rays. Well, the object is to win the Championship. If you don't have the wherewithawl to compete with them then sell the teams and let someone else try or stop being a cheap owner and put up the money for an Adrian Gonzolez. You had two young pitchers on the market in Lee & Halladay. Why not trade some minor leaguers for one of them as your ace? Because they would command big money and Angelos wasn't paying!
OR because they think some of their young talent will become future aces.
I appreciate everyone's input, but in my opinion \”the team stinks\” is not a good answer to why the fans in this city are so terrible. Actually, it proves my point…which is kind of why I was surprised to see how defensive everyone got about the topic.
So because the team stinks, fans are more excited about the crab shuffle? Or is that just because we have bad fans?
I think it's bad fans.
Lee's on the DL…You would be complaining about that if he was signed…Admit it.
Who would the Orioles have traded to get Lee? Did we have a "Roy Halladay" I didn't know about?
Same with Lee…who were we trading for him? Steve Johnson? Jake Arietta? Chorye Spoon? Or maybe all three… or How about Jeremy Guthrie, as he was our #1 starter last year and that's what both teams wanted. Hell, we coulda threw in our #2 starter too.
Zach
Did you not read my post about Phillie fans?
They completely bailed on the team in the mid 90s yet you use them as some measuring stick for O's fans?
It's what alot of fans around the entire country do.
It's not some phenomenon here in Baltimore.
What about Cubs fans? I was out at the yard on Saturday and there was on rowdy fan. He was heckling Vernon Wells, trying to get \”Let's go O's\” going and telling people to stand up in the 9th.
He got nothing. I talked to him after the game, he said he was from Chicago…a loyal Cubs fan.
The Cubs fans are probably the most loyal of any fan out there. Wrigleyville is something that cannot ever be duplicated.
I was at a Diamondbacks game last summer. How do you think that was?
Probably terrible. But don't you want to strive to be more than just an average fan base?
I know I do.
And another thing that I've posted numerous times but that I don't think you realize or want to realize.
We are the die hards that know about Matusz/Bergesen/Tillman etc…
The VAST majority of fans will only know them when they see them at the major league level.
People like us talk about the Ravens and O's 365 days a year. But we are few and far between. Sports talk radio and the like are niche things.
It even applies to the Ravens. I would bet good money that if you polled every season ticket holder as they walked into the first Ravens preseason game and asked them who the new starting WR for the team is (Boldin) that a large % wouldn't know.
I say this because every year my buddy's and I go through the offseason with many people in our section who come to every game and never leave early.
The reason everyone is exactly buying into your theory about Baltimore having "terrible" fans is because it's not true.
We're responding to the wrong topic on the post…but I'll continue my point.
I think fans are bad when they fail to properly acknowledge Brooks, glare at fans that stand up in the 9th inning and, as I've stated repeatedly, cheer louder for the animations on the scoreboard than the team on the field.
No matter what the product on the field looks like, you can't convince me that we have good fans if they do any of what I listed above…and it happens every game but opening day.
Welp, I dunno what to tell you then.
The atmosphere at the Yard is what it is due to the product on the field.
I'm heading down right now.
I'll give you a full report.
Don't cheer too loud…unless it's between innings.
Seriously though, enjoy the game. I'll be back out there tomorrow.
Growing up in that part of the country, I would have to agree with Mark's assessment of the Cubs fan or a Cardinal fan but there are some underlying issues that lead to this happening. There is a different mind set in the midwest compared to the east coast. I don't have enough room on this to write it all but to keep it short, the east coast fan is a fan of the team wheareas the midwest fan is a fan of the sport. B-more people will turn against the O's because they put out a poor product, a midwest fan will still go because they enjoy the sport, even if their team is doing poorly. I don't think B-more has bad fans, they just don't want to support a loser.
Good stuff Pole…see my response.
That's interesting analysis Pole. Definitely thought the midwest fan was just a more passionate and overall better fan than the east coast. I'm not sure which I prefer though… a midwest fan of the game that fills the stands or an east coast fan that roots for the team.
You've seen both. Which do you prefer?
Pole – Very interesting insight.
Bottom line is, call me a sucker, call me a boob, call me whatever, I am an Oriole fan. That doesn't mean I like what's happening and doesn't mean I wont criticize them, but I'll always be a fan.
I guess I can only see being a "fan" from that perspective. Not saying I'm right and the other kind of fan is wrong, I'm just saying I don't understand it.
Thanks for the insight.