Various outlets are reporting that the Baltimore Ravens have signed recently re-instated WR Dante’ Stallworth to a 1 year deal worth $900,000. Stallworth was just re-instated by NFL commissioner Roger Goddell over the weekend. He was subsequently released by the Cleveland Browns. Stallworth did not play last year while serving a suspension for vehicular manslaughter.
I have to say I am surprised by this move. I did not think that the Ravens would go near Stallworth considering his mistakes and the image risk that comes with him. I also am not convinced that Stallworth will have much of an impact with the Ravens. He does add a speed element the team has been missing at the receiver position, but how much will he have lost after a year layoff?
I would assume this is just the first addition the Ravens will make at the position and they are clearly not expecting Stallworth to be a go-to type of receiver. It does show, perhaps, that the Ravens are more serious about getting talent to compliment Joe Flacco. And maybe ore willing to take some risks. At $900K the financial risk is not too great, but you can cue up the Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis ex-con jokes.
So what do you, the BSR readers, have to say about signing Stallworth? Good move, bad move, or indifferent?
February 17th, the day the Ravens signed a murderer…brace yourself for this discussion folks.
I'm furious about this signing and even more mad about hearing people's spin on the subject on the radio. All I'm hearing if "right player, right price" or "the guy made a mistake, accidents happen." DUI Manslaughter isn't a mistake, if you get into a car drunk and kill someone it's not an accident.
There are people in this country with years of experience in their field that are being canned everyday. This guy kills someone and is hired as soon as he's reinstated into the NFL. He's a murderer making at least $900,000, these folks won't be making a dime.
But my real issue with this signing boils down to the double standard that this team seems to be operating on. Chris McAlister's situations were too much for the Ravens to deal with but Stallworth's aren't. Even though the Ravens aren't going to let him address the media for a month! And what about Harbaugh's "rah, rah, Play like a Raven" mentality. I guess that only matters for the guys he wants/doesn't want.
I'm ashamed that the Ravens made this deal. On top of it all Stallworth isn't even a number one guy.
Zach, I think comparing this with McAlister doesn't really fit. Stallworth made a huge mistake and he has to live with that, but theNFL has said that he is elligible to play again. By all accounts, Stallworth has been a model citizen before and after he hit and killed the man in Fla. He is saying and doing all the right things and his remorse seems very genuine. I think he deserves a 2nd chance and he will likely be very motivated to make good on it and work to keep other's from making the same mistake. McAlister was a knucklehead who could not keep his stuff in line for more than a year at a time. Let's face it, the Ravens kept him arround and put up with his stuff for as long as his talent justified him being out there. At a certain point he was not good enough for the Ravens to put up with his other issues.
I'll give you that angle Jeff. But I guess my other question is when does Harbaugh stop going after guys that he's had contact with? He's quick to take a chance on guys that have bad reps that he knows, but the Ravens aren't quick to go after anyone outside of that personal relationship.
AND, what happened to "Playing Like A Raven?"
I agree with you Zach as far as signing somebody who has had off the field problems is against what the Ravens are all about………Im going to put in my 2 cents in on this situation from a football stand point only and what this does for the Ravens. Donte Stallworth is by all means not the answer to the Ravens problems at the wide reciever position but I think it does help in a certain extent. Lets think about it….sure ya have Mason who is clearly the Ravens number 1 but can the Ravens take one more season of having Mark Clayton as their number 2 option? I certainly dont think so. Stallworth will be fine in Baltimore for 2 reasons…..Number 1: Baltimore has one of the stronger teams when it comes to a leadership standpoint and they have the nessacary guys (R.Lewis, E. Reed, D Mason) to put Stallworth under their wing. Number 2: Stallworth in his best years (New Orleans & Philadelphia) averaged almost 20 yards per catch and has amazing speed that can let Flacco stretch the feild and finally take a little heat off of Mason. Finally I know this wasnt a popular descision made by the Ravens but I think they will be just fine when the smoke finally clears.
I've had some time to digest this story and I'm still just as irritated about it, but from a different angle.
John Harbaugh was brought into Baltimore to change the image of the franchise. With such catchy slogans as "Play Like A Raven" he was supposed to change the mentality and the integrity and honesty of this franchise in a positive direction. The bad boy image was supposed to go away.
YET, going into his third season he and the Ravens decide to sign THE MOST confrontational player possible and FOR WHAT? A number three receiver? Ravens fans are you honestly excited to see a guy that will challenge Mark Clayton for his job?
Not only is this a terrible pick up from a player's perspective but it completely goes against what I though Steve and Ozzie were trying to change in the post-Billick era.
—Play Like a Raven—
I agree with Zach on the image change issue. He's probably a number three receiver and he has a tainted background. This was not a good move from a PR perspective since the Ravens were supposed to be moving away from these types of players after the Billick regime. Same ole same.
Amen Part II
Pole, you're right on. This is more of the same. And you know what, if the Ravens want to do that then fine. I've been a fan of them through that image and I always will be. But don't sell me something fake.
I hope what Jeff wrote at the top is the truth about this showing the Ravens concern about the WR position. If they can pick up a marque player to go with this then the fans might be able to swallow this pill. Clayton has been a bust for a first round pick, Washington for the most part was non factor except for his silly dances after four yard first down plays. If the Ravens can pick up a Marshall or Boldin then Stallworth might help the team even with his image issues. Mason, along with a marque WR and Stallworth would be an upgrade to the current players and would give Flacco some receivers to show his ability. At least we can find out if Flacco is the guy since we won't be able to blame sub par performances on the receiving core.
Okay, let's all calm down. Off the field, it's been covered- this will do very little for the Ravens' reputation as a team of criminals, either former or current.
On the field, let's remember something about Stallworth's circumstances. In New Orleans he had Aaron Brooks throwing to him. Enough said. In New England he was always second fiddle to Randy Moss- they already had a deep threat. In Cleveland he had Derek Anderson/Brady Quinn throwing to him behind a debacle of an offense. Again, 'nough said. We have no idea how effective he could be except that 1) he is not as good as Randy Moss (duh) and 2) the Ravens have no deep threat whatsoever. He should be productive if for no other reason than he has speed that no receiver currently on the roster can compete with. The Ravens got a lot out of Kelley Washington, who barely even got on the field in New England. Imagine what they could do with Stallworth.
No one was more outraged than me when Stallworth got off as easy as he did (I have the ranting comments on other blogs to prove it). But from a football standpoint, it makes sense.
This is a low risk, high reward proposition. The Ravens need new receivers all over the field, both this year and beyond. Does this eliminate the need for at least 2 more receivers over the next couple years? Not at all? But it helps in the short term. The Ravens desperately needed a deep threat, and he is that.
Stallworth has had good seasons in the past, but he has been mediocre from 2006 – 2008 and then having to sit out all of 2009, what kind of shape will he be in mentally and physically. He’s definitely not a number one guy, but with the Ravens always seeming to pick up other teams scraps on offense, I get the feeling that they will try to make Stallworth the top option.
I'm disappointed as well in this signing but maybe they'll use in him in a trade of some sort. That, I would be completely ok with. I have a feeling that they won't trade him since Harbaugh mentioned he had interaction with him in Philly. What about Mason and Washington?
I like the signing. It's one more option out there. Nobody is believing this is the signing that fixes everything for the Ravens.
As for his past transgressions, he paid his time. If you don't think it was enough you can talk to the state of Florida. The Ravens have looked the other way with several players in the past, why should they change now?
He didn't pay his time. Two weeks and seven figures. These guys live different lives than you, me, and everyone else. If you play in the NFL or have enough money you can literally get away with murder.
Again, your issue is with the state of Florida.
Should we be upset that Ray Lewis and Jamal Lewis got away with lighter sentences?
If you really want to compare a guy that was in a limo while a man was stabbed and a guy that was busted for dealing drugs to a guy that killed someone while under the influence of alcohol then so be it.
Stallworth murdered a man.
I guess the question I have for people who feel that ex-cons don't deserve a 2nd chance in the NFL is: Would you have a problem with a IT professional making $70k a year getting a job after serving time for a crime? If not why does an athlete not deserve a 2nd chance? It seems to fly in the face of what our country stands for to say that ex-cons can only make certain amounts of money upon re-entering the work world.
Take a look at Stallworth's stats, he hasn't been an impact player on any team he's played for. His highest number of catches for a season has been 70, most TD's were 8, those are fairly mediocre numbers. I've never been one to give players a second chance because that always turns into a third, or fourth or fifth most times. My concern is that the Ravens said they were going after the more clean players and this is not what they have done. I hope Stallworth has made some personal changes because we don't need the baggage. If he has done that he might make a decent addition since we sorely need help in the WR position.
Amen Pole. This guy is no better than a guy like Clayton, who at least doesn't come with the baggage. Your assessment on teams giving a second, third, fourth chance is spot-on too, but usually teams take that kind of hit for "impact players" not second or third tier guys.
I flat out don't get it.
I don't know of many companies who would take an IT guy back if he was surrounded with the bad publicity this guy has endured, justified or not.
Sheila,
I just don't like to be sold crap sandwich and told it's ham, that's all.
(Ravens) Don't tell me it's all about cleaning up their image and then sign the MOST controversial guy on the docket. Harbaugh was hired not to coach, but to spin. Billick was too transparent for Mr. Suave Biscotti, he needed a clean cut guy who could dazzle the unwashed mob and sell them crap sandwiches and tell them it was deli sliced ham. For the most part, he has succeeded.
STG, what I meant was this won't do anything to IMPROVE their image of course, but management has had no problems signing people with a questionable past before. Whether this is symptomatic of the whole franchise is another issue.
I'm not gonna get involved in this talk about "murder" when that's not what happened. I suggest some people read the facts of the case before commenting on it.
At first I was down on the signing from a football standpoint. Then I realized how low a risk it involves and I've warmed to it.
What I will not be happy about is if this is Ozzie's answer to the WR problem. He told us all before last season how comfortable he was with the WR corps and we saw what happened. This better be a minor move and a precursor to more impactful moves at the WR spot.
Stallworth is better than Clayton. His problem has always been his hamstrings.
As far as the image the Ravens want to portray etc….
I gave up believing ANYTHING from ANY professional sports team a long time ago.
However, I don't remember any specific quotes from the team about cleaning up their image per se. I think fans just assumed that's what would happen with the coaching change.
And by the way, Stallworth is FAR less controversial than Pacman Jones. It's not even close.
Again, I suggest everyone do some research on the whole event and the aftermath.
I'mSome numbers –
Stallworth has averaged 42 catches, 626 yards over 7 seasons
Mark Clayton has averaged nearly 47 catches, 623 yards over 5 seasons
I'm with you, but the Ravens have told us that Biscotti let go of Billick because, among many things, the team had a national image problem and he was going to work to correct that. He let go of Billick (no, not solely because of that, but partly) and hired a coach who had "higher standards", yet here we are again.
NOTHING has changed and you're right, I think the organization has fundamental flaws.
When I got my season tickets last year, I got this black and white photo of 6 or 7 Ravens with Harbaugh right in the middle, I'm sure if you are a fan, you saw it. The caption read- Honor, Integrity, Pride, Professionalism, Courage…
STG
When and where did the Ravens ever say that they let Billick go because a national image problem?
And you're too smart to get caught up in sleek black mail outs with slogans and sayings.
It's all PR spin that's BS.
It's just like how some guys on the team are viewed by the public as stand up guys etc…. when in reality they are anything but.
The " Harbaugh Kool Aid Crew" needs to belly up to the bar and take their latest swig!
This grows more funny as the years go by with this team of Biscotti, Harbaugh, and Ozzie. They bring in the "Mr. Motto" to change the landscape of the Ravens. To instill discipline, to improve clock management, to improve game management, to be more competitive, to "clean up" the Ravens image!! He's done NONE of these things, yet the "Kool Aid Crew" keeps drinking from the well. And before you say "at least he went to the playoffs two straight years…" I say, 1-6 versus 2009 playoff teams is NOT an improvement. It was a fluke of a schedule that ended with 3 of the last four games against some of the dregs of the NFL- Chicago, Detroit, and Oakland.
Now Mr. Motto will go before the media and "Kool Aid Crew" and tell us, it's "OK, Dante's a good kid, he made a mistake, he's a RAVEN". It's all BS but some will buy into it and the Kool Aid will just keep flowing!
He's another 3rd string receiver. He's Kelley Washington with a rap sheet. Was it worth the "hit" the Ravens will take nationally? Was it worth the bad publicity they will take?
Maybe Harbaugh can dream up a new slogan to make it all go away. He's done such a nice job fixing the rest of their ills.
Mark,
Distractions are distractions, in my book. He'll be a story wherever he goes and how long before the players and short-fuse Harbaugh blow a gasket after continuing to answer questions about his legal issues. This seems like a pick up with little or no upside to me, putting aside whatever your opinion may be on him having served his time, deserving a second chance, whatever. He is a second tier receiver on a team full of second tier guys. They didn't need another second receiver, they needed a number one. Some will say he's "one piece of the puzzle", but again I contest that he is a second tier guy carrying a TON of baggage and distractions this team didn't need. I cannot see any upside.
STG
I think you are completely overblowing the whole distraction angle.
Those questions will be asked once and that's it IMO.
Hell, the whole Vick thing died down pretty quickly in Philly and that situation dwarfs this.
He's a better receiver than everyone on the team besides Mason.
You gotta remember that Mason is unrestricted as is Washington. Clayton and Williams are restricted.
I just think this notion that Stallworth will be some walking distraction is way off.
Stallworth is better than Clayton.
It's a very low risk signing with minimal financial investment.
The whole distraction angle just isn't gonna happen.
Not by the numbers, he's not:
Some numbers –
Stallworth has averaged 42 catches, 626 yards over 7 seasons (7 seasons, 4,383 yards)*
http://www.nfl.com/players/donte%27stallworth/pro…
Mark Clayton has averaged 46 catches, 623 yards over 5 seasons (5 seasons, 3,116 yards)*
http://www.nfl.com/players/markclayton/profile?id…
* (Per NFL.com)
Why take on the baggage for a number 3 receiver?!?! And, by all accounts Clayton is a model citizen.
I don't get it!!!
Cutting and pasting stats now measure who is better than who?
Not in my mind. If anything I'm worried about his hamstrings which have affected him his entire career.
And I'll say it once again, he's only bringing some carry on and doesn't have 3 heavy bags that need checking.
Don't mistake that to mean that I'm minimizing what happened. All I'm saying is that Stallworth will address a few questions and it will be done.
Alot of the initial anger and/or discontent with the move will fade away. It always does.
If the Vick thing can die down like it did in a market like Philly than this will surely do the same only quicker.
Here's a good article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/…
For as bad as Newsome sucks as a GM, this was a good move. Already Stallworth is better than anybody else we have. Mason can't retire, he has 4 kids, a house in Pa, and a house in Seoul 🙂 You have to give the guy a break. He did not wake up one day and say, Oh I think I will get drunk and kill somebody. You all forgave Ray Lewis for lying about 2 murders, forgave wife beating Cal Ripken and forgave Billick for keeping Kyle Boller around but can't forgive Stalllworth? You fogive rapists! Look how long Cal Ripken raped the Orioles by putting the streak ahead of the team. He was probably juicing just like Brady. Anyway, When he start catches those long TDs next year, this all will be moot. Go Ravens
Mark,
As a sports fan you know, numbers don’t lie. If they put up nearly the same numbers, how can you say Stallworth is better than Clayton? Is he faster? Makes more acrobatic catches? Better team guy? Or is he less of a distraction?
Every day we pit guys against each other by numbers. How many yards did he have? How many catches? How can you now say numbers don’t mattter? This was a bad PR move for a guy who has produced nearly identical numbers to Mark Clayton.
Are you kidding me STG?
Numbers don't lie?
Numbers lie all the time.
Yes, Stallworth is quite a bit faster than Clayton.
I do the eye test not the stats test.
And again, the PR angle will null and void soon.
Mark,
We'll have to agree to disagree. Both have had chronic hamstring issues, both have had mediocre careers to this point, and one is two years older and has had more than one off-the-field issue with his apparent substance abuse problems. To me it wasn't worth the gamble and further muddies the Ravens' waters as to what they are trying to accomplish. I am stealing this from my buddy Bruz – what is their identity? Are the re-building? If so, why are they signing 37 year old linebackers and receivers to one year contracts. If they are playing for today, then why hire a coach with little or no experience? Why have a 1AA QB as your starter with no veteran back up?
This team has had a real identity problem since Mr. Aerotek took over. I'll trust your judgement that Stallworth is better, even though the numbers do show it, as maybe it's a gut thing with you the same way I feel that Harbaugh, despite his numbers, is not a long term answer at head coach.
Give Stallworth a few years in the system like Clayton and then let's reexamine the numbers. Look at Ripken's numbers versus Miggy Tejada and tell me who makes the Hall and who is forgotten in another 5 years?
Fire Newsome and bring back the real architect of the Raven's Superbowl winning team…Phil Savage.
I just saw where the Browns released Jemal Lewis and he's an unrestricted free agent. The Ravens can bring back Jemal, get the big bruising RB they could use and get the trifecta for ex cons. Next thing you know they will be wearing their all black uniforms again and have a dressing room for parole officers to check on players behavior during the season.
Wow.
What are you guys gonna do when this whole thing is a non story in a few days?
By the way, did you throw up a stink like this when Jamal was re-signed after his stint in jail?
Did you go nuts when Ray knowingly lied about a murder that he basically witnessed?
Mark,
I moved into the area after the so called instances noted above. I did have issue when they re-signed Jamal and seemed to sweep Ray's transgressions under the rug though. I have a different perspective than most people I talk with in the Bmore area. Its not all about what they have done on the field but how they live their lives as well. I realize this type of thinking is old fashioned but character should mean somthing to the fans. Our athletes should be good citizens and role models to our youth. If they make mistakes, there should be serious repurcussions from those incidents, not a slap on the hand and a welcome back hug after the so called penalty has been paid.
Is it gonna be a non story in a few days, probably, only because our society gives second, third, and fourth chances to professional players. Heck even Packman is back in the mix again this off season. All the instances we have discussed have different factors but the bottom line is the Ravens have signed this guy and he is now ours. Hopefully he has changed his ways since this is his fifth team in eight years and fourth in four seasons.
Polester coming strong to the mike!
I think we're from a different generation, buddy. Younger guys are more foregiving than us old dudes.
You and I both know in our jobs, which is public service, if we would have been involved in an incident like these players, we'd be in the unemployment line. I guess I view NFL players and professional athletes as having more of a responsibility to the public than should be expected. Mistakes happen, but unfortunately mistakes generally come with a penalty. In our world it would mean the loss of our jobs.
Pole,
Good points. If Stallworth is a "good receiver" why is he with his fifth team in 8 years?!?!
Terrell Owens, 4th team, 8 years….?
Nails,
"I know Owens and Moss, and Mr. Stallworth is NO Owens or Moss ." Senator Lloyd Bentsen
Or something like that…
"Mr Moss was no Mr Moss his last 2 years in Minny and Mr Moss was no Mr Moss ever in Oakland…No Moss, No Moss". Roberto Duran
Difference is Moss had big years and a track record. Stallworth's track record is substance abuse issues and mediocre ability.
Same reason Randy Moss is with his 3rd team in the last 5 years. Sh@t happens!
The latest bit of news that cracks me up is the Antonio Cromartie rumor mill. The Baltimore sports talking heads are saying he isn't a good fit for Baltimore because he's got some character issues and like 7 illegitimate children. Stallworth isn't though? And Willis has his fair share of kids from different women.
PLAY LIKE A RAVEN
You guys are missing the point. Those guys are sports players and we are fans. we should worry about their play on the field and not off of it. Get out of their personal business. We could find skeletons in evrybody's closet. What about Tiger, should we villify him? We forgave many of the steroid users. What about guys who cheat on their exams? Or speople who p0ach deer to eat? You guys crack me up. People are people.
Nails, I'm all for ignoring these guy's behaviors for their play on the field. But I think the point is that the Ravens have expressed interest in bringing guys in with good backgrounds and off field lives. I'm not saying they actually follow up on it, they just express interest in it.
My issue is people overlooking Stallworth's history while bashing Cromartie. Sometimes it's ridiculous to think about the double standard that this team operates on.
Zach
Every team expresses interest in bringing in guys with good backgrounds and sparkling off the field lives.
As far as the Stallworth/Cromartie comparison. I simply brought up other issues that might scare off a team from giving up something significant to acquire Cromartie while also having to pony up big bucks to sign him to an extension.
The ridiculous double standard you speak of is commonplace and not even close to new.
Cromartie has many more issues than a bunch of kids plus a bunch of pending paternity suits.
Stallworth made a terrible mistake. He's doesn't have a pattern of doing stupid shit.
Mark,
How many times does it take to show a pattern? Once, twice, three times? This was NOT Stallworth's first issue with substance abuse. He was also suspended in 2007 when he was with the Eagles.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/17468254/
How many chances do we give these guys?
I guess we need to come to the realization that character doesn't mean anything in today's NFL. Us old farts can whine about it all we want but the bottom line is what can the player do on the field. I'm sure players where doing bad things in the 60's 70's and 80's but we didn't hear about it because we didn't have 24/7 coverage, plus news people of those times wouldn't print those kinds of articles about their own players. What I will ask is the occasional indulgance to rant about these issues because at my core I do believe these things mean something. The times have just passed me by. Stallworth doesn't have great numbers but hopefully he will be a presence on the field for the upcoming season. Flacco and the Ravens needs weapons at the WR position to be successful. Hopefully this is only the beginning.
STG
Pole hit the nail on the head.
I have long since stopped worry about all of this off the field stuff. If we knew what guys were doing back in the 50s 60s and 70s like we do now many of us would be appalled.
The true answer to your question is if a guy can play he will get almost as many chances as he wants.
The Ravens are no different than any other team.
Cromartie owes his former agent 32 grand and his claiming he can't pay it. The NFL is involved in the litigation. He parties non stop.
But that's not the reason teams haven't traded for him. The reason, as it is with pretty much any player, is that his play has been terrible the past few seasons.
If he was playing at the level when he had double digit INTs you can be sure that the Chargers would be dealing with all sorts of offers.
Mark,
You seem to be validating my argument on Stallworth. IF he had good numbers, I would be more apt to forgive his past transgressions, but he really hasn't shown much more than a guy like Clayton.
Bottom line, the Ravens brought in a receiver that…
a. Has an injury history
b. Has an apparent substance abuse history
c. Has numbers similar to Mark Clayton's
Yet somehow this is viewed as a "right player, right price" low risk move. If it was a guy who was a consistent performer in the NFL, then I'd be behind the move, but there sure is a lot of things going against this guy.
Let's look at Stallworth's "past few seasons":
2007 – Violates NFL's Substance Abuse Policy, puts up 697 yards for the season. I'll grant you, his numbers are not too shabby for a guy "Chiefing it up".
2008 – 11 games, 17 receptions, 170 yards
2009 – Suspended for 2nd violation of substance abuse policy, convicted in vehicular manslaughter case.
I can't think of how his last few seasons could be any worse.
Now the argument is that the Ravens didn't invest much to get the guy and I will grant that point. $900k is chicken change in the NFL coffers. But what did they get? That's been my argument since day one. Fans are ballyhooing this as just the beginning of a solid offseason. Really? How? It looks to me like the added a "different" receiver, not a "better one".
STG
Stallworth is a speedster who can stretch the field.
He's a completely different receiver than Clayton which is another reason I don't just list numbers and then say guys are equal because their numbers are close.
Cromartie, in a nutshell, won't tackle. He will also be demanding a new, lucrative contract if he indeed does get dealt. And that's before we even talk about what it would take to acquire him.
I don't what else to say about the Stallworth signing. The Ravens paid him next to nothing in terms of the NFL money landscape. They gave up nothing to acquire him. He is a body at play WR and compete for a job. Mason is a UFA. Washington is a UFA. Clayton is a RFA as is D. Williams.
And I'll say it again, Stallworth is better than Clayton in my opinion. If anything he'll offer them some speed that they desperately need to open up other parts of the field.
I don't get it. A cheap veteran WR who has talent for dirt cheap. If you want to worry about his off the field stuff and use that as a reason not to sign him, that's fine. I stated my feelings on that general topic on the Mason thread if you care to read it.
I contend that he will not be a distraction in the least. He'll be a thorn in the side a few die hards on blogs and sports radio and that's about it.
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