On Wednesday I was listening to an ESPN podcast, and was a bit bothered by what I heard when a gambling “expert” came out to say the Saints had “no chance in this one.” He said that by any metric or trend you used, the Colts were the only team you could sensibly bet on. When the host asked him to make a case for the Saints anyway, the expert was confounded. Even the more reasoned prognosticators declared that the Saints would need to get a great punt return or they would have to have some fluky things go their way. It was never about strategy, it was always a series of “ifs.”
From the first quarter on, the Saints won in every part of the game. They didn’t get pressure on Peyton Manning, but they made a few plays here and there and contained the passing game with their athletic secondary. They were gashed in the running game, but never allowed the Colts to rely on it the way great running teams can. For all their bluster and great plays, the Colts only managed a single touchdown after their early run. The first quarter had the Saints on their heels, confused and out of position as Manning confidently marched down the field on their opening drives. The Saints offense, for their part, were a lovely manifestation of the overmatched NFC patsy that the pundits had projected.
After that point however, New Orleans was simply the better team. Though the game was exciting throughout, this win was not the result of any “fluky” plays or strokes of luck. The vaunted Colts defense looked lost when its pass rush was unable to pressure the unflappable Drew Brees, and it was the Colts who remained on their heels as Saints receivers held onto one ball after another despite blistering hits after the catch. This of course was a team that faded down the stretch the same way that Indianapolis did, but since they were the lowly Saints they were quickly discounted by fans as they “backed” into the #1 seed in the playoffs.
They dispatched three Hall of Fame quarterbacks in succession on their road to the playoffs, from Kurt Warner to Brett Favre to the immortal Peyton Manning. Yet until the Great Manning threw his pick six to Tracy Porter there seemed a sense of inevitability that the Colts would take their “rightful” place at the podium. Even then it wasn’t finished, but it started the beginning of the end.
In a great number of Super Bowls you are left thinking it was a great game, but that the winning team was not necessarily the best team in the NFL (see New York Giants, 2007?). That was not the case tonight. New Orleans proved to me that they are not only the Super Bowl Champions but are the best team in the country. Congratulations Saints, you earned it.
Hopefully this game finally proves my point: Tom Brady > Peyton Manning. Brady has 3 rings, Peyton has 1. Brady is 14-4 in the Playoffs, Peyton is 9-9. Manning might be the best regular season QB of all time, but Brady is better than Manning.
Counting Super Bowl rings is a sorry way of qualifying quarterbacks. Is Trent Dilfer as good as Brett Favre? Is Brad Johnson's Hall of Fame resume as strong as Steve Young's was? So many things go into winning games- the coaching staff, the defenses, the OPPONENT, the supporting cast, that it is terribly simplistic to rate quarterbacks on how many championships they win. If the Vikings won the toss in OT then Brett Favre could have won the SB this year. Does the coin toss mean that he isn't as good a QB? I'd take Jim Kelly over a whole host of SB winning quarterbacks.
As I said, the best team doesn't even always win the Super Bowl. Who says the best QB in the NFL wins the Super Bowl that year? If I needed one quarterback for one season, it wouldn't be Tom Brady. It's amazing how he won all those Super Bowls before his defense became old and worn out… I guess he must have been a better QB back then.
Oh, and is Ben Roethlisberger better than Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Brett Favre? I guess Terry Bradshaw is the best quarterback of all time, huh? Oh wait, he had the Steel Curtain. What a coincidence! I am sure it was his amazing quarterbacking that won all those titles…
My argument doesn't just count Super Bowls. I took into part the record in the playoffs. Tom Brady is better all around than Peyton Manning to me because he's proven himself in the playoffs.
Whoever used steve young as any comparison to anything HOF should be immediately discredited
Zach, I can appreciate that you hate the Colts. I have such hatred for the Pats. But if you at any second wanna rate Peyton Manning on that game last night, you are crazy. He made some sick passes last night. And the pick, I am going to put that on Reggie Wayne who broke the wrong way. And never mind that Wayne and Garcon dropped huge passes.
Manning had nothing to do with the special teams failures. Nor did he have anything to do with the Saints eating up the clock. the Saints played a hell of a game last night.
But seriously- the debate will never end. Brady may been the decades best gamer over the decade, but he has looked more human as his team has struggled. Peyton has only looked stronger over the years.
Sadler, I wasn't just judging Peyton Manning on last night's performance, I just think it was a perfect example of my feelings on his career so far. I would love to have Peyton Manning here in Baltimore, but I would rather have Tom Brady because he wins big games and his records prove that.
Another big debate that people threw out there, especially this year during their Super Bowl run, was "Is Peyton Manning the greatest QB of all time?" I think the greatest QB of all time wins that game last night. Johnny Unitas would have with all that talent around him. The greatest QB of all time doesn't throw an interception at the end of the game.
First off, congratulations to the city of New Orleans and the Who Dat Saints!!!
Now onto the Peyton Manning debate. There is no question that Peyton Manning has some tremendous skills and is a true genius and breaking down defenses, finding a seem, and making his reads. He may be the smartest QB ever to play the game. But there's more to being a great QB than those things, otherwise we could break down the position to some type of skills competition or IQ test. Being a great QB means having nerves of steel and the disposition to get it done in the clutch. Peyton is a .500 quarterback in the playoffs. Sure it's a team game, but you can't take the accolades when you succeed and say it's a "team game" when you fail.
I find it amusing the year after Peyton won the super bowl that people felt he had finally accomplished everything he needed to. I think he got lucky (although less lucky than his brother did the next year), and that the number of pass interference calls in those days helped pave his way through the playoffs. In general, come crunch time he is good, but not great. Brady was great for a few years in crunch time (although not so much now), but for those years, he proved far more than Manning has been able to prove in his playoff appearances. Yes he has tremendous raw talent and athletic ability, but someone like Favre would outshine him in actual guts and playing under pressure.
What we all need to remember is that Tom Brady is just a little over a year removed from MAJOR knee surgery. Let's not judge him on what we've seen this past year.
I have a hard time figuring out why everyone is quick to make exceptions for Peyton Manning, but not Tom Brady. Fans will overlook Manning's post season record and say that he doesn't have talented receivers around him. Though they fail to give Brady any slack for the play he had after the knee surgery that STG mentioned above.
You can use stats to prove what ever point you want. My point is that Brady has 3 rings, Manning has 1. I would take Brady with his knee surgery and proven ability to win clutch situations over Manning, who plays fantastic in the regular season.
They're both HOFers though.
Here's my thing, why do we all watch the Ravens? Yes, for entertainment, but we also thirst for championships. Give me the guy that comes up big in the clutch and puts Lombardi Trophies in the city's trophy case. You can keep the fancy passing records, countless commercials, and gyrations at the line of scrimmage, who cares? All I want is championship banners flying at M & T, and whoever puts them there is the guy I want. I have a hard time believing that fans in NE would trade Brady for Manning, fancy records and all. Give me the rings!
STG- YOU sound like a guy with cabin fever. Actually you sound like a Manning hater or maybe it's deeper- an Indy Colts hater. Peyton last evening simply prolonged the jury on whether he is the greatest QB of all times. His problem is he leads his team for 16 games and then peters out at play-off time. Some guys rise up during play-offs, Peyton seems to just be average- is it the pressure the play offs bring? Bottom line Peyton has the stats, he just doesn't have the rings. I personnally think he is a great QB- the greatest of all time-dunno.
What a great game and what a win! Congratulations New Orleans Saints.
Will-o,
Cabin Fever I got!!! What makes the great ones great are what they do when the BIG game is on the line. To use another example, there's a lot of baseball players who can hit doubles in the first few innings. Put the spotlight of the game on the line in the late innings and they choke. Peyton is undoubtedly one of the finest regular season QBs in the game. But his record clearly shows he is just plain regular in the post season – he's 9 and 9. The "greatest of all time" doesn't throw that pick in the waning minutes of the Super Bowl last night. Greatest Regular season QB – Peyton Manning, hands down, but I also know quite a few baseball playerrs who put on a show in batting practice, too.
Manning vs Brady…Reminds me of Dr. J and his one ring vs Larry Bird and his three…Back to Manning…And its not his "fault"…But playing 50+ % of his games in perfect conditions has skewed his stats immeasurably…Put Favre or Brady or #19 inside for more than half of their careers and watch their numbers soar dramatically!
And that, The Bruz, is something people often overlook. It's funny that two dome teams made it to the big dance this year.
Bruz…This is the one where we both see eye-to-eye…aside from our kids' sports!
Agreeing with Bruz Part II…
Bruz says 50% plus games for the "Greatest Regular Season QB ever", case in point the recently completed 2009-10 season… he played 12 out of 16 regular season games indoors and 2 out of 3 playoff games.
Looks like I need to be giving away Tom Brady posters to the Wilt boys.
[youtube 9n46CtDmKOg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n46CtDmKOg youtube]
…I kinda just wanted to post that video.
Sadler…I don't know, you better give Bruz one too. Trust me, I'm no Tom Brady fan, just not caught up in the Sony, Gatorade, MasterCard, DirecTV, XBox, and Sprint salesman. Let me ask you this, you've got to bet your mortgage money on a Super Bowl…it's Tom Brady versus Peyton Manning (I know, it's two AFC teams, play along)…all other things being equal, who are you betting your mortgage money on? Be honest!
If you asked me 5 years ago, I would have had to said Brady. He was getting it done with a great line, serviceable running backs and middle of the line receivers. Now he has a mediocre line, serviceable backs, and 2 top tier receivers. His numbers have puffed up, but i don't think he has progressed as a quarterback.
Manning over the past 10 years has grown and matured as QB. He has better control of his offense. He made a crap load of comebacks this year in hostile territory. He would have done it in Balitmore supposing Flacco throws a TD at the end of the game and not a pick.
Let's give the Saints the credit they are due. They should have lost 2 weeks before but they knocked another great QB. Is Brett Farve any less clutch because he threw that pick at the end of the game? Sometimes, a defense or a gameplan can do that to a team.
So back to your question today…. I would bet the farm on Manning. I think at this point in time he is the man.
Somebody put STG to bed!
He still thinks the Colts are in the AFC East!!!
Here's the deal. Football is a ultimate team game. It's why Trent Dilfer has a ring and Dan Marino gives "Isotoner" gloves to his offensive linemen.
It's why Brad Johnson can polish some jewelry every morning and Jim Kelly thinks about stabbing Scott Norwood.
For 18 games, Peyton Manning played on a level that I've never seen before. He is an all time great quarterback. No doubt about it. In fact, his throw to Dallas Clark last night was one of the best throws I have ever seen.
The argument between Brady and Manning is far to complex to get into on a blog.
Saying Brady is better because he has 3 rings doesn't do it.
Saying Manning is better because he is a 4x MVP doesn't do it either.
Little things like an injury to a 3rd WR can be the difference between a playoff appearance and a 9-7 season.
STG……………..That bet you offered up depends on numerous different variables. What team is playing defense? How has the game been going? Who is banged up?
That's the beauty of football.
And I'm drunk.
I love how a post about the Saints winning the Super Bowl is now about Brady vs. Manning… Let the Saints bask in their moment! We can argue Manning and Brady when they are retired!
Kudos to the Saints…it took them 43 years to reach the top of the heap. Which begs the question, are they young enough to repeat? I think they have the talent and skills to compete in the NFC for awhile. Lets open this up for conversation, Minny without Favre are just average, Dallas chokes in December/ January, Giants are hit or miss, which to my way of thinking leaves Green Bay. The Saints seem like they have the deep depth as Earl Weaver would say to repeat.
The only thing that worries me about the Saints chances to repeat is their defense. Year in and year out good defenses prevail in the NFL, but the Saints proved that theory wrong this year with an incredibly talented offense. One thing is for sure though, I'll be drafting Drew Brees early in my fantasy draft!
Will-o,
I love the Saints…they remind me of the Dan Marino Dolphins and the high powered offense he had back in the day. Repeating is tough and they'd better sure up that defense if they plan to repeat next year.
The other thing thats tough about repeating is that everyone has your number. I feel like teams that win it all are almost better off tweaking themselves in the off season instead of trying to use their same method to win the following season. Everyone will know how to play the Saints next season, but the good teams will be the only ones that have a chance of beating them…they'll be plenty of good ones.
I'm going to leave Tom Brady out of all future correspondence. I'm really NOT a fan.
Again, my contention is I DO believe Manning is a great QB, especially during the regular season, but I think he has shown a propensity to be just average in the post season, as evidenced by his 84.0 QB rating in the post season. Now before we start the "It's a team game" crap, again I say, if you take credit when things go well with is 104.1 rating during the regular, then you have to take the blame for your mediocrity in the post season, 9-9 record, 84.0 QB rating, 1.6 TD average per game to 1.1 INTs per game. That's AVERAGE fellas, just AVERAGE.
So wait…An 84.0 Rating and more TDs than INTs is just "AVERAGE"…Uh-oh…Than what's the label for Joe Cool Last Name's 1 TD against 6 INTs in his Playoff Career? Especially with him being a "consensus first rounder" back in the 2008 Draft? Hey, I'm just saying…. 🙂 Back to Shiela's point: GO SAINTS!!!
Bruz, I agree that Flacco really has been average so far and his post season play has been bad. I think Baltimore is excited for average though. Flacco is young in his career though and this argument is more about the best of the two future HOFers.
You all are spoiled.Try being a Bills fan for the past 10 years and then you realize what sucks. You have a team that makes it to the playoffs consistently. You have a QB, who has gotten enough of it done to make the playoffs and win in the playoffs. Who gives a crap about numbers? Jeff Hostetler won a freaking Super Bowl. And there was that awfully average dude named Trent Dilfer. And don't forget that Brees sucked for a few years. I'm going to bed.