Jim Johnson has bounced back this year to be the great reliever the Orioles saw out of him a few years ago. Lets face it, the Orioles bullpen has been terrible this year. Its extremely sad that the only two bright spots are two guys who are free agents at the end of this season. Both Koji and Johnson have produced numbers that the Orioles must replace next year if they ever want to have a respectable record. The two of them have had similar seasons and also have similar value at the trade deadline. Koji is much older, has an option, and is a type A free agent, while Johnson is much younger, and isn’t ranked on the Elias rankings. This means that whoever acquires Koji will get a first round pick the next season, but Jim Johnson comes with no pick. The fact that Johnson is much younger and healthier than Koji makes up for the fact that Koji would come with a pick. For that reason I think they have similar value at the deadline. But the Orioles seem a little more hesitant to trade Johnson because of his youth and the hope that they can resign him next year. For a team to acquire Johnson they may have to give up a little more than they would to get Koji. With that being said lets take a look at what the O’s can get for Johnson. The names and teams will be similar to those of Koji’s, but there are some differences.
Pittsburgh Pirates- They are in on almost every tradable Oriole this year. We should just give them a big package and give them Guthrie/Koji/Johnson/Lee for a big piece. But of course thats only wishful thinking. The usual names come up here. Brad Lincoln, Ross Ohlendorf, and Daniel Moskos, plus minor leaguers Setson Allie, Luis Heredia, Bryan Morris, Rudy Owens, Jeff Locke, Zack Von Rosenberg, and Starling Marte. Check out the Koji Uehara article for more information on all these guys. I would think that Brad Lincoln would be a must have in a deal for Johnson. Because of his increased value I’m not sure the O’s would only accept minor leaguers with no experience.
Minnesota Twins- It has to be Kevin Slowey here. The Twins are interested in selling Slowey and the O’s are interested. When the O’s call the Twins will say they want Koji and/or Johnson. As my prelude says the O’s would rather move Koji, so he would go first. If the Twins insist on Johnson I think the O’s do it. Anthony Swarzak is still a possibility, but Minnesota may not want to move him for only rental relievers. I could see the O’s being surprising suitors for Denard Span or Delmon Young and it may take Koji or Johnson plus someone like Reimold and a lower prospect to get it done. Sometimes at the deadline surprise teams jump in for players like this who have multiple years left on their contract. I wouldn’t put money on the Orioles being that team with Span, but that’s mainly because I personally feel Span isn’t too great of a player. If a contender wants to ship their supposed “star” center fielder while they need offense now more than any point in the last decade then there is a problem with him. Knowing how great of talent evaluators the Twins are I would trust their judgement. All I’m saying is don’t be completely shocked if you hear Oriole’s/Span trade rumors before Sunday.
Texas Rangers- The same guys that I mention for Koji apply here. Tommy Hunter, Scott Feldman, Michael Kirkman. With Texas being the favorite to acquire Heath Bell its looking less and less likely that they deal with the O’s for bullpen help.
Detroit Tigers- Another team who is in on almost every Oriole prospect. Guthrie is going to be traded to them. Mark my words. Will they get the O’s to include some bullpen help in the deal? Without Johnson Detroit would probably be forced to deal Andy Oliver or Charlie Furbush. I’ve said that many times. In a combined deal with Jim Johnson maybe the Orioles can ask for a young outfielder like Brennan Boesch, Andy Dirks, or Austin Jackson. With them being in contention its hard to see them deal anyone who they think will help them win this year. Only disposable players who don’t fit for this season would work. That kind of eliminates both Boesch and Jackson. Dirks is a solid 25 year old outfielder with some pop and some decent speed too. He is pretty good at all 5 tools. Boesch has become a near All-Star but a deal like Guthrie/Reimold/Johnson could put it over the top. Never say never.
Cincinnati Reds- Most “experts” think they are quickly falling out of contention and will now be sellers. HA! At only 6.5 out and over 2 months to go the Reds are not done. The Reds have more talent than any team in that division and could hit a 6 game winning streak at any time. Walt Jocketty is one of the best GM’s in all of baseball and gets very creative at the deadline. One year he traded for Scott Rolen and acted like a buyer when they were way out. So I think the Reds will do quite the opposite of what most people are starting to think and they will buy buy buy. I think now is the time they pull off a good 3 trades including one for Ubaldo Jimenez. And I can see them targeting Koji or Johnson for relief help as well. Edinson Volquez and Chris Heisey may require package deals, but aren’t impossible. Sam Lecure is a likely target still. If nothing else Lecure can turn into a fine reliever much like Jim Johnson.
Atlanta Braves- There really aren’t a whole lot of fits with this team because their prospects are too good. They will probably deal Minor or Beachy or Lowe, or multiple because they want room for the #1 pitching prospect in all of baseball Julio Teheran to come up and start. Brandon Beachy would be very intriguing to the Orioles and would probably take a couple pieces including either Koji or Jim Johnson. I still like the idea of targeting another one of their good pitching prospects Brett Oberholtzer.
New York Yankees- Still hard to see the O’s dealing within division. Ivan Nova and Andrew Brackman are still the guys that could be available in deals like this.
Philadelphia Phillies- Joe Blanton and Kyle Kendrick still apply. Vance Worley is getting better and better and may soon be untouchable for them. For now you have to imagine they will consider selling high on him for a bat or bullpen help.
Arizona Diamondbacks- I’ve mentioned this team in a few different articles and Wade Miley continues to be the only guy I can find that would work.
Overall I think Koji gets traded and Jim Johnson stays. Because he has no Elias value he doesn’t give a team a draft pick and the Orioles have a better chance of keeping him and resigning him. If the Orioles are admist a nice package deal with Guthrie and the team wants Johnson and not Koji, I think the O’s do it. That’s the only way I see Johnson going. I don’t think your going to see a 1 for 1 trade for Johnson to a contending team for a prospect. The O’s have to have no choice but to move him.
Mark Brown is BSR’s fantasy sports and trade deadline expert. You can ask him your Fantasy Baseball questions or follow him on twitter @mbrown3486
You can’t say that Span isn’t a great player, if you do you havne’t been paying attention. Most teams would love to have a guy who close to .300 and plays plus defense in center. Span doesn’t wow people with the common numbers but if you need a solid leadoff guy who plays great defense in CF he is your guy. Think about it in the sense of moving Adam Jones to a corner spot and saving his body. Also you think the Twins are trying to win this year, how? They are 6 games back, Mauer is just coming back and Morneau is out again. Also Ben Revere has been playing okay for a rookie, maybe they like him for the next year. You can’t try to understand everything a team is doing and I wouldn’t right off Span as a solid addition to the Os (he’s only 27 and cheap $$$).
I pay more attention than you can imagine. Span is not a great player. He is good defensively and he does hit near .300. That’s it. No power and mediocre speed. 25 SB is not high. Terrible Ian Desmond has that. That division is far from over and nobody is running away with it so 6 games back isn’t far. The same can be said with the Reds. All it takes is one of these teams who are 6 games out to hit a 6 game winning streak and then they are within head to head play of the team in front of them for a playoff spot. Your right that Revere is their guy for the future and that is why Span is expendable. It has nothing to do with where they are in the standings. Mauer has been back for awhile now and is tearing the cover off the ball. Span would be a good addition but he is slightly overrated. Not to mention it took him a long time to break into the majors. 27 is a bit old for his limited experience.
Beachy is a name I like alot. Presumably you don’t have to pay for his pedigree (which you would with Minor) and you get a 4-pitch repertoire that generates an elite number of swinging strikes. His control appears very good as well. If they packaged all three RPs (Gregg, Koji and JJ) I’d feel better about this team than I have since June.
Guys, you are not serious, are you? Is Mark Brown really advocating a trade of Johnson, Guthrie, and Reinold for Boesch? Does Ross really want to trade Gregg, Koji, and Johnson for Beachy? Absolutely not.
Look, the purpose of trading people at the deadline is to restock or get younger, but not quite established, major league ready players. Beachy has done well, but not nearly well enough for all three. If you’re going to trade all three, forget Beachy, and get Jurrjens, who is a year older than Beachy, or Hanson, who is the same age. And I’d still get them to throw in a reliever.
As for Boesch, he has nice numbers, but at 26 is past elite prospect time. Besides, the OF is hardly the Orioles weak spot. If you want them to include Porcello, maybe.
As for Blanton, who Mark Brown thinks still applies, you do realize that that he’s pretty much been shut down for the year, right? The Phillies announced yesterday that he has inflammation of the ulnar nerve, the old Jim Palmer injury, and will likely miss the rest of the season. So, why would you go get him?
The Orioles have to get maximum value for their players, and the trades being proposed here do not come close.
Ken. Thanks for the feedback on my comment. A couple thoughts:
1) Its always a good idea to trade relief pitchers. Their perfromance from year to year is high volatile and they simply don’t affect the game much. The best RPs are worth 2.5 – 3.0 wins above replacement a year while the best starters are worth more than twice that. Keith Law wrote an excellent piece this week on the fallacies of trading for RPs. Its is available here:
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?name=law_keith&id=6802553&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
2) Another aspect of trading is the cost incurred. Kevin Gregg is signed to an awful contract (4.2 M this year, 5.8 M next year). Beachy is signed to a very affordable $416,000 without an arbitration date in site.
3) If you think you would be capable of getting Tommy Hanson from The Braves for Gregg, Koji, and JJ that is GREAT.Your capability to do so would qualify you as an elite GM. Right now Hanson is considered the 23rd most valuable trade chip in all of MLB according to Fangraphs’ Dave Cameron. Scouts project him as one of the best pitchers in the NL and he is still in his pre-arb years and under team control through 2016, Hanson is a terrific combination of present and future.
Dave’s take on Hanson is here:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2011-trade-value-25-21/
4) Jurrjens is a fine pitcher and I would be happy if the O’s got him for the three RPs we have mentioned. His inability to strike hitters out worries me slightly but as you pointed out he is young and fairly cheap (3.25 M this year followed by arbitration). Still Beachy is younger, cheaper, and displayed equals skills (albeit over less MLB innings). The skills I am referring to are their respective FIP and xFIPS. Jurrjens comes in at 3.30 (FIP) and 3.77 (xFIP). Beachy is at 3.80 (FIP) and 3.53 (xFIP).
Cheers.
Ken. Thanks for the feedback on my comment. A couple thoughts:
1) Its always a good idea to trade relief pitchers. Their perfromance from year to year is high volatile and they simply don’t affect the game much. The best RPs are worth 2.5 – 3.0 wins above replacement a year while the best starters are worth more than twice that. Keith Law wrote an excellent piece this week on the fallacies of trading for RPs that emphasizes both of these aspects.
2) Another aspect of trading is the cost incurred. Kevin Gregg is signed to an awful contract (4.2 M this year, 5.8 M next year). Beachy is signed to a very affordable $416,000 without an arbitration date in site.
3) If you think you would be capable of getting Tommy Hanson from The Braves for Gregg, Koji, and JJ that is GREAT.Your capability to do so would qualify you as an elite GM. Right now Hanson is considered the 23rd most valuable trade chip in all of MLB according to Fangraphs’ Dave Cameron. Scouts project him as one of the best pitchers in the NL and he is still in his pre-arb years and under team control through 2016, Hanson is a terrific combination of present and future.
4) Jurrjens is a fine pitcher and I would be happy if the O’s got him for the three RPs we have mentioned. His inability to strike hitters out worries me slightly but as you pointed out he is young and fairly cheap (3.25 M this year followed by arbitration). Still Beachy is younger, cheaper, and displayed equals skills (albeit over less MLB innings). The skills I am referring to are their respective FIP and xFIPS. Jurrjens comes in at 3.30 (FIP) and 3.77 (xFIP). Beachy is at 3.80 (FIP) and 3.53 (xFIP).
Cheers.
I don’t have to say much, Ross hit it on the head. Your player values are a little off. Jurrjens would cost a whole lot more than a couple of relievers, and Hanson is untouchable. Jurrjens would cost Britton and relievers, or Arrieta and Tillman and relievers. Beachy would probably even cost more than just Koji and Johnson. He might cost another prospect too.
As for Boesch…the Orioles do need outfield help. Scott is probably done as an Oriole, Pie hasn’t worked, and Reimold hasn’t claimed the spot. Someone like Pie could be gone next year leaving them with the need for another OF. They really don’t have any good OF’s in the farm system either. Outfield is something the O’s are actually targeting this deadline. That isn’t my personal opinion it’s a fact. Boesch has power and would have even more power at Camden Yards. He would be a quality middle of the order bat.
Blanton is a stretch, but its a guy the O’s could look to acquire for next year. They have always liked him, he’s good when healthy, and eats innings.
Johnson is not a free agent until 2014. Koji has a club option for next year. Guthrie is under contract through next season. WHY??? Why would we want to jettison these players for
mid lever prospects? Why?
I never said mid level prospects. I said an impact player. That is a high level prospect/major league ready player.
Two better-than-average players out of a mere handfull and, all one sees is getting rid of them. Which is the Oriole Way…….the returns since the Frank Robby trade have been largely questionable. So how will the O’s get back equal PLUS ? And, I hope deals with the yankees are out of the question !
I really don’t see any deals with the Yankees happening.
You guys are re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic while Peter the Great pilots the sinking ship into the abyss……….funny people,,,,,,,,,,,